00:04
Kirsten Justesen
I picked Melchior Lorck. He lived in the middle of the 1500s in Flensburg, a part of Denmark at that time. And it's Ten Women from Stralsund, just 22 by 31 centimeters.

00:21
Kirsten Justesen
He's organizing his gaze. So, he's drawing these women in costumes. In the front, there are three women you only see from the back, with exceptional headgear, almost sculptures. There are three on one side, two on the other side, drawn in profile. First you think they're nuns. No, they're not, because you see the cleavage. Right and left side, there are two drawn from the front. But I couldn't explain to you their expressions either in their heads or in their hands. 
 
00:59
Kirsten Justesen
I don't know why they are, I don't know who they are, I don't know what they are. I'm fascinated. I'm not interested in psychology. But those women, I'd like to know, or make a story.

01:18
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
My name is Tina Jøhnk Christensen, and I'm the host of Danish Originals, a podcast series created in partnership with the American Friends of the National Gallery of Denmark and the National Gallery of Denmark. Our goal is to celebrate Danish creatives who have made a significant mark in the US.

01:35
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Today, our guest is Kirsten Justesen, a Danish artist. Welcome, Kirsten.

01:41
Kirsten Justesen
Thank you.

01:43
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
We're very happy to have you here. Right now, I believe you're in Copenhagen, not in the US as I am. I'm in Los Angeles. Would you mind telling the listeners where you are and describe the place so they can create a picture in their mind of your location?

01:59
Kirsten Justesen
My gear is not good enough for this occasion. So I'm in a professional studio. And I'm in Frederiksberg. It's outside central Copenhagen, where I live. This might work.

02:16
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
It looks professional and you've got a guitar in the background. So I had a feeling that it was a studio.

02:23
Kirsten Justesen
I think it's a former musician who owns the studio.

02:27
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Yes. And you mentioned that you live close by. Do you work from home?

02:33
Kirsten Justesen
Well, yes, I live in a very, very nice building close to Nørreport station, just in the middle of Copenhagen. And it's a house from 1878, built by a famous architect Meldahl, who formed a union for artists in order to make housing for them with large studios.

02:55
Kirsten Justesen
So in this beautiful house, there are 15 artists and real nice studios. And then there are five apartments for the widows, as is expected. Artists were males, and there should be tiny, small apartments for their wives.

03:13
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
That sounds amazing. So you live in an art community.

03:17
Kirsten Justesen
Well, you could call it that, but we're very, very different artists and very, very different ages. But it's a nice place, and with a beautiful view to the botanical garden.

03:29
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Oh, sounds fantastic.

03:31
Kirsten Justesen
I can actually see the National Gallery from my studio window. Because he was so clever that he said, Oh, then I have to build the house here, so the artist won't have to go that far to the National Gallery.

03:44
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Very smart and thoughtful.

03:48
Kirsten Justesen
Nice guy.

03:49
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Yes. Talking about location, you have a special relationship to New York. You were there in 2006, for instance. Tell us about your artistic adventure in New York City. What has that been like for you?

04:04
Kirsten Justesen
Oh, well, it was not my first visit to New York.

04:07
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
I know.

04:08
Kirsten Justesen
Yeah. I was living for a year with my late husband in Montreal, what, connected to the National Film Board in Montreal. And then I sold — I only made one film, which was translated into English, in '71. So I sold it while I lived in Montreal.

04:30
Kirsten Justesen
And then I said, Oh my, I have to go to New York. Well, I've been to the United States, because there was constantly a mail strike in Montreal. So you had to go just over the border in order to post your letters there.

04:43
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Oh.

04:44
Kirsten Justesen
It was in '74. I had a little child and then a baby. And then I took a Greyhound bus to New York to see what it was like. It was wonderful. I thought, oh, if you lived here, Andy Warhol, no surprise that you're doing what you are.

05:00
Kirsten Justesen
So, that was nice. And then I've been there several times and got friends. But I stayed for a whole year in New York, in 2006, I think it was, where I had a scholarship and a residence, a studio, and an apartment, And that was nice.

05:19
Kirsten Justesen
And I got this position because the Danish Arts Foundation had these positions. And I turned 60, at least, at the time. So I wrote, I'd like to apply for this position, because all my curator connections are getting old and retired, so I must go in order to meet the young ones, the 40-year old ones. And I thought it was the most funny application they ever saw. So I went, and that was nice. Yeah.

05:51
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Talk about what it was like there. It's the center of the art world, at least in the US, but also in the world.

06:00
Kirsten Justesen
Oh, yeah. Well, I had a lot of friends, artists there. I just kept up with old connections and saw galleries, and it was a very nice time. But basically, many of my American art friends are a bit older than I am now. And a lot of them were turning 70 at the time.

06:22
Kirsten Justesen
And most of them live in Soho and Tribeca. So I spent so many eve — I'm a smoker. I'm so bad. Well, at that time. I'm still. But I spent so many evenings at those parties on the roofs down in Tribeca. And stood under the roofs smoking and crying because the towers were missing.

06:46
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Oh, yes, of course.

06:48
Kirsten Justesen
Yes, but basically, I've been exhibiting pretty much around in Europe. And it was nice and it was a very quiet time, a very peaceful time. And Obama was on his way going for election, yeah.

07:08
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Nice and hopeful time.

07:10
Kirsten Justesen
Absolutely.

07:12
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
And one of your art pieces is at the National Museum of Women in the Arts in Washington, DC. Talk about how that happened.

07:22
Kirsten Justesen
Oh, the Danish Arts Foundation, they also invite, or curators abroad can apply for a visit. And so I had, among many others, I had a couple from the National Museum, two women. And they were, well, may I say, vegetarian women. And when they were visiting, I had this New York way of eating and dining and cooking.

07:56
Kirsten Justesen
So they were so happy, because I don't think Copenhagen, it was in 2008 or 2010, maybe. And so maybe they were not quite, concerning nutrition, satisfied about their visit. I think that meal was the start.

08:16
Kirsten Justesen
And they were very pleased with my work, and liked very much to have some of those. And I was very happy to have a Danish sponsor. Oh, he passed away by now, but he was very interested. You have another way of dealing with art at museums in the United States.

08:39
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
How was that?

08:42
Kirsten Justesen
Well, it's sponsored, it's paid by civilians and not by the state. And all the museums, I mean, it's a kind of social event, almost, and then you credit the sponsors. If you are a Danish businessman, you will find it very, very nice to tell that you supported this museum and with these works. I think he bought about six works the board of the National Museum were happy to accept. So everybody was happy. This is the way, this is how it works.

09:22
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
What would you say are the differences between the art scene in Denmark and the art scene in the US?

09:30
Kirsten Justesen
Well, it's getting closer. We have had only very few galleries in Denmark. And during the last 20 years, many galleries have opened and the whole art scene is so international now. But still Denmark is very much up north of the Alps, and Europe is so many different languages and so many different cultures.

09:57
Kirsten Justesen
Denmark is a very very little country with almost six million inhabitants. I think New York is much more generous in a social way, much more open, that if you go to an opening or go to an after party, there are artists, there are curators, there are, well, now I call them customers, or art lovers, much more mingled.

10:26
Kirsten Justesen
In Denmark, it's still very, very separate. And also money-wise, I mean, the Danish Arts Foundation supports very much artists to go abroad or, as I mentioned, invite the curators from outside.

10:48
Kirsten Justesen
As a funny thing I realized not a long time ago, when I take part in exhibitions in Europe, group exhibitions at various museums, I'm always listed like, "and others." But now I take part in an exhibition at Louisiana, which is very internationally famous. And they have international artists. And I just called them to say, are you aware that even you mentioned me? It's a huge exhibition, but never mind, I'm among "others."

11:24
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Kirsten, you've mentioned that you were in your 60s when you went to New York. So the listeners can guess that you are a mature woman. You're in your 80s.

11:35
Kirsten Justesen
No, I am 80.

11:37
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Yes, you are 80.

11:38
Kirsten Justesen
81 to be.

11:42
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
You are not in your 80s, you are 80, to be precise. I want you to go back in time. You grew up on Funen, where you were born. And I know that you wanted to be an artist at 16. But when did you say out loud to yourself that this is what you were, an artist? And what did it mean to you back then at 16?

12:04
Kirsten Justesen
Well, I'm born in the army. I was born in Funen. My father was in the army. I was 13. I was very much, as a child, I was always occupied with doing something. Clay was always so nice to me. I could see that I could do something. I could make a portrait, it looked, and I said, oh, that's nice, I can do it, and the others could not. So I thought, well, I think I'm a sculptor, and then I went for it later on. So it was like breathing.

12:47
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Like oxygen for you.

12:49
Kirsten Justesen
Absolutely, yeah.

12:51
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
You had to create sculptures. Is that how you felt?

12:55
Kirsten Justesen
It just was a way of being alive and being on your own and I mean, to form your own life because I was not that pleased with my childhood or the circumstances. So, you create a space of your own. And that's mine. I think it's the reason why it was so obvious. Yeah. I don't think I ever discussed it with myself. I just did it.

13:24
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
You just did it. As we do when we are 16. Or 13, as you said.

13:30
Kirsten Justesen
But at 16, I left my family.

13:33
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Yes, I know. That's very young to leave your family. Why was that the case that you left so early?

13:40
Kirsten Justesen
I couldn't stand them.

13:41
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Oh. That's sad.

13:43
Kirsten Justesen
No, that's a fact. I might have been born too independent. So, I'm alright with it. I don't find it that sad. Well, there's some difficulties, and especially because it would have been in the late '50s, '60s maybe. Well, I cannot count.

14:03
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Did you go straight to Copenhagen? I know you started studying classical sculpture at the Royal Academy of Fine Arts, and you graduated in 1975.

14:14
Kirsten Justesen
I'd been to school for 10 years at seven different schools. And then I started to go to a drawing class in Odense in Funen. And after that, I went to Århus, where they just started a fine art academy, or they renewed an old academy. And there were professors coming in with the boats, sailing from Copenhagen to Århus in the night.

14:48
Kirsten Justesen
At that time, the Fine Art Academy in Copenhagen, a professor had — it was employment for life. So, all these great artists, they realized that they could never have a professorship because the government didn't change. It has to be for nine years now.

15:09
Kirsten Justesen
And so, there I really had a classical school. So I'm trying classical sculpture and then I did a lot of experiments. When you're young, the time is kind of doubled. It's exceptional what you can manage to make in 24 hours. Yes.

15:28
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
You went ahead and did something rather untraditional with sculpture. You used your own body in a lot of your art, like a sculpture. Has this had an impact on your relationship to your body throughout the years? It's been a tool in your work. It was placed in a shopping cart, on ice, and you've been naked while vacuum cleaning in a photograph. Talk about using your body as a piece of art, as part of a piece of art.

16:01
Kirsten Justesen
I asked the professor, Knud Nellemose is his name. And he said, Well, a sculpture, it's a pedestal, or a plinth. He describes, there's usually naked women or undressed women on top of the plinth. And the point is, it's a sculpture, and you can walk around it. It has three dimensions.

16:24
Kirsten Justesen
I said, oh, thank you, professor. So then I did this where I used my own body and placed myself into the cardboard box the size of that plinth. That was sculpture number two. Sculpture number one was the same experiment, where it's photographic. After that, the clay and the way in which you make a portrait or any figure, it's routine.

16:53
Kirsten Justesen
I usually compare it to how to play a piano, that you look at the notes and you look at the piano and see which one goes together and you look up and down and up and down. And if you rehearse a lot, then suddenly you can read. And this understanding goes through your mind and out into the fingers so you play the right notes.

17:18
Kirsten Justesen
And it's exactly the same way that this sculptor Knud Nellemose, he taught me how his gaze was working in this. And mine did it the same. So again, this is a kind of breathing. You have a tool. And you get very secure, in a way, that something you really can do, know how to do, and it's such a security.

17:43
Kirsten Justesen
So, then, where's the fun? And because then the fun was to play with the concept of sculpture, of this image, how my professor describes what is a sculpture, in his opinion. Then there's also something about the gaze. I don't know how it came to me, but it was first in the '70s that there was John Berger, I think he was an English art historian.

18:15
Kirsten Justesen
He might have said, "men see, women are seen," that you have this direction for convention, how to describe what you see. And I think it was beautiful. Well, I'm not a male, definitely not, and it was not that then I go look at males to keep the balance. And at the same time, of course, I had observed that the whole art history is men talking about men, seeing men have a male gaze. Suddenly one day you see it and you cannot go back.

19:01
Kirsten Justesen
Oh, where is my gaze? What am I seeing? So in that way, I've been playing with this concept of sculpture and gaze. And then, I mean, seeing my own body in the mirror, in the photograph, whatever. And I know my art history. So, I could see that my body happens to be of good proportions, slightly overweight, so actually my body, when you watch it, it has the measurements of the male model from the 1800s.

19:47
Kirsten Justesen
I said, ha, I can use it. So I just use my own body as an icon for my gaze, but it's the artist herself in her own work. I never use my head. Because my head is my expression, that's me, so I don't ever use my face. It's private, but my body is just an ordinary body, which happens to be, well, luckily, not a Rubens model, but 18th century, a tiny little more slim.

20:24
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Interesting.

20:25
Kirsten Justesen
No, it's so simple. My body is my tool.

20:28
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Yes, but it's not simple to get the idea and to execute it in the ways that you've done. Or you think so, maybe, but I don't.

20:38
Kirsten Justesen
It was obvious. You are not your body. Yeah.

20:43
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
You have been mentioned as one of the first women artists who were part of the feminist art movement in Denmark. You were a pioneer. How do you feel about being described this way?

20:55
Kirsten Justesen
It's very irritating. Because I'm just an ordinary feminist. But what else could you be? I'm not particularly radical. Well, I know I have this rumor. And sometimes when I'm out making a lecture or a presentation, I do something pretty early when I start talking.

21:20
Kirsten Justesen
I'd mention that I have two sons and five grandsons. And then my audience, they change, oh, then she's probably normal. And then they can listen. It's an ordinary thing that I'm a very ordinary woman in my social life with all those grandsons.

21:43
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
That's amazing.

21:45
Kirsten Justesen
But it still pops up because you can see that people, they cross their arms and say, Oh, now they will have a feminist, they hate males and obviously, it's old-fashioned stuff. Come on.

21:57
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Yeah, yeah, yeah. In 1970, you participated in Damebilleder (Women's Images). It is described as a feminist exhibition and it was organized solely by women artists. What was the experience like for you?

22:15
Kirsten Justesen
We were students at the Fine Art Academy in Copenhagen. We started discussing our roles in the Fine Art Academy, actually. And then we made a series of events, I think it was two weeks where we presented, in the form of installations, tableaus, scenarios, which belong to women.

22:37
Kirsten Justesen
The first was "The Hooker." We started with "The Hooker," and it was in the Fine Arts Academy basement where we could do anything. So we used it as an exhibition space. So behind an open door with glass, we were sitting, each of us for two hours, like the hookers in Amsterdam.

22:58
Kirsten Justesen
Well, we had just been down in Amsterdam and celebrating Rembrandts on the Fine Art Academy's behalf. We were part of this celebration of Rembrandts. But there we saw streets with the hookers who were in ultraviolet light in their white bikinis and beautifully done hair, watching for customers.

23:21
Kirsten Justesen
So, first was "The Hooker." So we had this wig, bikini, and high heels. And the press from the whole of Scandinavia. That was fun. And I think it lasted for two or three days. And then the next image was "Dishwashing." So we carried all our undone dishes down to the basement. That was a kind of shock.

23:46
Kirsten Justesen
And then there was "Beauty." And we had a beauty company, Max Factor, actually, I think it was. And one of their women who demonstrated, so everybody could come and discuss how you can change your face, or your look. I mean, in the '70s, everybody was very much into fashion.

24:09
Kirsten Justesen
It was also the hippie time, and there was a wonderful French magazine, Vogue, which was very interesting at the time, because all the professional models in Vogue, they were placed in contemporary sculpture environments. I mean, Walter De Maria had been there. Serra. There were several very huge American contemporary artists in the surrounding where their land art work was placed. Smithson, I recall.

24:45
Kirsten Justesen
It was a huge discussion. Young women studying at the Fine Arts Academy are pretty pure, but we had these discussions. I have to mention Mao Zedong, because "let the hundred flowers bloom," the Chinese women, they were a side of this hippie culture also at the time. And we were very much attached to that.

25:15
Kirsten Justesen
And so after the "Beauty" piece, then we started the factory, where we were producing red dresses, and so it was a factory with all of our sewing machines. And after that, we had two or three days, where we gave also to the audience, a lot of audience passing through, a lecture in self-defense.

25:45
Kirsten Justesen
And it was the same time when the women's movement was on its way up both in the United States and all over Europe. Yeah. So, we have these days of learning to fight. After that, we took our children and moved down to the basement. By the way, we were also fabricating sheets and covers for eiderdowns. Red, red, red, red. We were only eating red food and it ended up in the vernissage, or the opening, which was the end or the beginning of the new life and yes, that was a beautiful piece and it's not forgotten.

26:30
Kirsten Justesen
It was reconstructed at the National Museum years ago. I mean, it's history, almost 50 years ago.

26:37
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Yeah.

26:38
Kirsten Justesen
That was fun and a consciousness raising period. As it happens, when you start your career, it goes, or it doesn't go. But in the late '70s, I was a part of an international feminist exhibition. The first ones were started actually in Holland, in Den Haag. Maybe the Danes were fast to break the rules, but the Dutch women were faster.

27:16
Kirsten Justesen
So a lot of the curators employed at various museums, every time they would travel to another country, basically with a piece of art to lend for an exhibition, they looked if there were any feminist young artists in the various cities.

27:38
Kirsten Justesen
And it was not global yet. It happened, actually, in 2006, where there's a global feminism. It was the Brooklyn Museum who did that. But the Dutch women, they were the first to invite the American feminists over. So I know all these women from the opening in, I think, '78, '79, yeah.

28:08
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
In which way would you say that you Danish women broke the rules back then? And was it fun?

28:14
Kirsten Justesen
It was fun. It was fun, and necessary. What, the rules?

28:21
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Yeah, talk about breaking rules. Which rules were you breaking?

28:25
Kirsten Justesen
All of them, just all of them, yeah. I'm born in '43. So we are the daughters of the war and our mothers who lived in the '50s tried to dress us up as beautiful housewives and said, 'You have to sit better on this chair, do this, do that, or you will never find a proper man.' I think maybe basically the rule is to sit awful on a chair, or dance on the table.

29:08
Kirsten Justesen
But there was one very important thing which happened through this movement very early. And it was that suddenly you find women worth to talk to, to discuss with. I mean, up to then, males were talking, and women were silent, or talked about the recipe, or whatever. So, I mean, the, basically rule, you included other women in your thinking, or, yeah, you just change your leverage and conquer the world with that. And that's simple.

29:48
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
You did get a husband and you did have two children, two boys. Talk a bit about how you included in your art, your pregnancy, becoming a mother, coping with working as an artist and being a mother at the same time.

30:05
Kirsten Justesen
But it was the same thing. I just used it directly. I remember when I was pregnant. What is surprising? That my body can do all the work itself. So, of course, they are used. Not my head, well, in some cases I used a head, but then I made it as a masquerade, because it wasn't me. I had to paint it white and line up, so it wasn't personal.

30:35
Kirsten Justesen
But this pregnancy started actually for me with having special interest in the female's history. And so I made a series called Circumstances, which is a very nice word in Danish called Omstændigheder. I don't know actually how you put it in English, but this is happy circumstances. Haha.

31:04
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Yeah.

31:05
Kirsten Justesen
It's circumstances, and you can take this 'happy' away. It's a variety of circumstances in those nine months. And this you can look into. There's a lot of, from the old days, things you must not do, a lot of signs. So I made a whole series of it.

31:25
Kirsten Justesen
If two pregnant women are doing things together, if they fold a tablecloth, for example, the one who's dropping first is going to give birth first. All these myths and tales. That was fun. And then, we just have to be aware of what's going on. And tell about it, show it, draw it, make a film about it.

31:54
Kirsten Justesen
When you have this thinking of trying to surprise yourself, or you have a dream, make it real, translate it into a material. Yeah, it's a woman's experience.

32:13
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
I found it interesting that you say that it's irritating to say that you are part of the feminist movement. I'm a proud feminist, and I would be super proud if I'd been part of what you did. Why do you think it is that it irritates you?

32:28
Kirsten Justesen
No, it's because it's like you have to defend something. As I used to say, I'm just an ordinary feminist. I'm not interested in using my time to convince people that women can do a lot of things. This fight, oh, it was tough in the '70s and forget it, I'd done my part.

32:53
Kirsten Justesen
So it's not interesting anymore. Women are doers, women are doers. We just do things. I'm not a teacher. If I'm going to try and analyze these things, then you have to pay me really a lot of money. It's boring.

33:11
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Yeah. You expressed it through your art. You don't talk about it.

33:15
Kirsten Justesen
I'm just an ordinary feminist.

33:21
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
You have also done scenography at theaters. Do you like the theater? It's quite a different scene to be working on. And how did this come about?

33:31
Kirsten Justesen
Oh, as a set designer? Well, at the Fine Art Academy, there came a guy from a student theater and asked, are there anybody here who can make us a lion? It should cost nothing, it should be so light, but it's a full scale lion. Yes, I can do this. I did it, and I've been doing set designing for a number of performances at most of the theaters in Denmark.

33:59
Kirsten Justesen
And I work very conceptual set designing. It's three months' work and it's a salary. It's so fun. And it's so nice to cooperate, and I have very nice directors to work with. But it's a discipline, I see it as a discipline. And you do not express yourself. You have to go in the same door as the director because he's taking the risk. So, but that's a beautiful thing.

34:37
Kirsten Justesen
You keep your language as an artist. You can end up being so silent and you can miss words and you can miss conversation or talking. But you have to be very precise when you deliver your model and argue for it. So it has been a mental rehearsal, in a way. And then it's fun. And you get paid. Thank God, you get paid.

35:09
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
It's a job.

35:11
Kirsten Justesen
Well, actually, in the '90s, my artistic work went so nice, I could afford to work for ballets. Because it was economically a very bad situation for those dancers. They don't say a word. They dance. You just have to make a set designing and the costumes so they don't trip over it. But that has been very, very wonderful.

35:45
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
I read that you like being the age you are now because you can be precisely who you are and tell things as they are. Has it not always been this way, and why not?

35:58
Kirsten Justesen
I think it's always been that way, actually.

36:01
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
You seem the kind of person who knows who you are and knows what you want to say.

36:07
Kirsten Justesen
If you're a visual artist, you have to know what you're doing because you have to show what you're doing. And, well, that's hard work. But I think it comes very easy.

36:21
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
I could talk to you forever, but here's my last question to you. Looking back at the 16-year old girl who left home and went to explore the world as an artist, what would you tell her today, if you could go back in time and give her advice on how to go about her career?

36:41
Kirsten Justesen
I couldn't. I would say, do it again.

36:44
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Do it precisely as you did it?

36:46
Kirsten Justesen
I cannot answer that question. You don't tell people — The parents say, Oh, see at my child's drawing, do you think…? I don't think. And I said, if your child wants to be an, or your teenager, mainly, wants to be an artist, then send them. There's a couple of schools and high schools in Denmark they can go, and everybody who wants to be an artist goes there.

37:16
Kirsten Justesen
And I said, and then they will themselves measure if they are good, or how good. And they don't have to tell you they will make the decision. No, I don't give advice. If people want to do this, then they just do it, or they don't do it, but you cannot take advice in this. It's too, it's very hard. It's tough. You are poor. You have a lot of fun. I won't recommend it.

37:49
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
No?

37:50
Kirsten Justesen
Basically, no. Basically, I won't.

37:56
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
And why is that? You've done fantastically.

37:58
Kirsten Justesen
Yes. But it's tough. Listen to my sons when there's a round birthday. Oh, we were so poor. Come on, you had so much fun. No, it's the energy you need for this. You cannot recommend anybody to go into this unnecessary position or skill. Well, which is very, very necessary.

38:29
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
On that note, thank you so much, Kirsten, for your time. We really appreciate that you are part of Danish Originals. It's a big honor to have you here.

38:39
Kirsten Justesen
But thank you. This was fun. I didn't know what you were going to ask me.

38:43
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
I know, it was a secret.

38:49
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
For today's episode, Kirsten Justesen chose Melchoir Lorck's Ti kvinder fra Stralsund or Ten Women from Stralsund from 1571–1573 from the collection of the National Gallery of Denmark.